Well according to Mr. Simon's projections there will be 14 fewer sections next year. That means at least 14 elementary teachers will lose their jobs. That is in addition to art, music, library, gym, TA's, custodians, secretaries, etc.

Just read my screen name

Based on last weeks meeting no later than April.

And now because a larger school was closed, the children will also be losing their computer labs. In order to fit in the smaller building, the computers labs will be taken apart and used as classrooms. Mr. Simon said the computers can be put in the library for now, defiantely not an ideal situation.

Computer labs being taken apart was an option if the space is needed. If the space is needed or not can't be decided until class sizes are determined during the budget process and also til the rezoning is actually finished. The number of total classes needed was based on an average of 21 students to a class. The may not be the case for all grades in all buildings. Class size will be closer, but it will still vary by grades and buildings.

Why is it not ideal to have computers in a library? They probably were originally in the library and then were moved to an open room once the space opened up. My point is, that room was probably a classroom once when enrollment was high. Turning it back into a classroom is not going to hurt anyone, especially when they still have a place to house the computers and teach those lessons.

Even the lowest projection of sections for next year is higher than the number of rooms with thie option, so it will happen. The computer labs were never classrooms. they were built with the new construction only for that purpose. It is not ideal in the library because the librarian will be teaching a class in there so how can a teacher come in with their class and teach another lesson at the same time?

Frank....I couldn't agree more!! WI needs a new BOE! We need to get those people out of there & try to find ones that truly care about the kids and not money! (if that's even possible)

I agree , Bob !

The enrollment is down, and continues to decrease. Schools are half empty. Does anyone understand the economics of the situation?

Bob it is very easy to understand how Ms. LaRosa is on the BOE. She was ELECTED!! The BOE is comprised of local residents. There is no BOE school, there are just volunteers who value the district and it's children enough to want to give up a great many hours or their time so the rest of us can sit home with our children. Then stand in judgment when it goes in a direction that does not please us. Remember Ms. LaRosa was not elected to just 1 term she was re-elected for a second. Where were these concerns of conflict from anyone at that time. Where were the concerns of Incompetency when any of the BOE were elected or re-elected. George Smith has had several terms yet NO alligations. Is the BOE perfect, not by a long shot. Are some of the decisions they made not the most fiscally responsible, perhaps not. But they do the best they can with the skills they bring to the table. I hope this year the WI district brings many nominees to the race for the 2 seats which are up for re-election. It will be interesting to see how many complainers step up or will they just sit back and armchair quarterback another three years. Then it will be particulary intresting to see Will things magical get better?? I could name many things that if I were a BOE member I'd have done differently, but I'm not one. And differently would not have made those decisions necessarily any better it just would have brought out a new group of complainers and complaints.

Again....I couldn't agree more! Well said!!!

Yes Frank & Beans, I understand that 2 MIDDLE SCHOOLS ARE STILL HALF EMPTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The kids will NOT be getting the same education! They will be closing computer labs, firing teachers and cramming more kids together causing larger classes and less time for teachers to spend with individual students. This is not good, they are also closing Westbrook which was rated as a better school than some that remain open.

Well said Pat.

Yes it is very possible. I'm not entirely sure of the process but would think it would go something like this: The district needs to determine where the special ed. classes and ESL classes will be attending school first. Since those groups can't just be spread throughout schools. They then need to determine how large class size wll go due to budget constraints. Lastly information about remaining capacity in each building would be placed into the computer and a model of rezoning would be generated. So yes it is entirely possible that students in the buildings remaining opened could be relocated. That is why it is important to stress to children the WI as a community and not just individual schools. Stress the connections they have as a community through there extra curricular activities. Another connection many although not all the children share is there catachists and religion ed. classes. That will be a gathering with there old schoolmates. Just find or make up positives whatever helps the kids.

Rich, the proposal above you speak of made to much sense. It boggles my mind that any other decision was made by the board. Anyone with common sense would see that propsal to be the least intrusive and sensible. It makes no sense to choose any other plan. Any rebuttals will be quickly dismissed because my common sense is always spot on!

Rich,

Please note the publiclly elected members of the Board of Education do not receive a salary.

Rich, The BOE does NOT get paid, they volunteer for this torture!

If you have been in West Islip since you were 3, then you must have been in the area when Maserra was closed. Or when Kirdahy (originally known as Captree) was closed and then again opened.

I am sorry that your child is sad and I do hope she finds happiness in her new school. Higbie Lane School closed too and those kids went to new elementary schools. A period of adjustment is always needed when a child's world is changed. In my own experience, it will take time but with your love it will be o.k.

I did not attend the meeting this eveing for the simple fact that there was nothing anyone could really do to change any decision that was made. For all the talk, if they were looking to lessen the impact on any children, a different decision would have been made.
That is my honest opinion. My children are affected by the decision but to be honest are too young and I don't believe there will be any lasting (or even minimal) effect on the children. They are more resilient than we are by a long stretch.

They made the wrong choice. Keeping a MS open so we have two when we should only have one, it's economics 101. It's greedy to keep two open, especially when the combo of closing one MS and one ES was explained to us as saving the most money. Most families who are experiencing the economic pinch sold their home in Vermont, got rid of the extra luxury vehicle kept in the garage, sold the boat, stopped the lavish vacations, they trimmed the budget so they could afford inflationary costs of every day living. That's the normal way to go forward. The BOE should see two MS as a luxury that in prosperous times was affrodable, but now in times of fiscal crisis ( the districts own words) it was time to cut one MS, it's the boat we loved but can't afford right now. Instead we kept the boat, even though little Johnny and Susie will have to make the adjustments just to keep it, so that more fun can be had with the boat because selfishness prevailed once again. Isn't that why we as a country are in this mess to start with, selfishness and greed? Will we ever learn? Doubtful.

Bellew will have to take some of us North siders as well I guess. And we can ALL be going somewhere else. They have to redistrict and rezone everyone!

There is no way Bellew will be able to take the North families, their isn't even enough room for them to take Captree!! If half goes to bellew and half goes to Bayview it's still tight. What a mess! I guess we'll see. It stinks that we won't find out until April.

Everyone is going to get moved around.

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS IS ONLY OUR SECOND YEAR AT WESTBROOK AND I AM HEARTBROKEN. TO ALL OF THOSE AT WESTBROOK, YOU HAVE OUR FULL SUPPORT AND LOVE WHEREVER YOU GO.
CAROL MILLER

Why is that not a valid reason Al? I speak from experience - having an empty school building in a neighborhood with no access to a main road is not good.

Al, just curious which students to you think belong in BayShore?

People with the Bay Shore mailing addresses PAY WEST ISLIP TAXES. They are not going to find that they "belong in Bay Shore".

Although at the rate we are going, they may WANT to find themselves in Bay Shore schools.

Good Morning Rich, and I am sorry if this closure arrangement is going to affect your children. The point is that public school education has morphed into creating a Frankenstein. It is supposed to be simply public school education but the mad scientists have been hard at work adding and layering pieces that we don't need, can 't afford and now they have created a MONSTER with our tax dollars. If they wanted to tame the MONSTER slightly, they would have done the least disruptive, most cost effective thing and close one of the MS but only after they got rid of some of the mad scientists. Some people are very naive and are only to happy to carry water for the district.

Gayle Do you go to any of these meetings? Not that I think it's going to help to attack the BOE but we all should be questioning what is going on and the process. There are a lot of parents that are upset today for many good reasons. Let them voice their concerns and stop parenting other parents on what to say. This decision clearly didn't effect your children so why are you still commenting and on top of that against people that it did? Many teachers lost their jobs last night and many students we be facing many changes. Their parents have the right to question what happens next.

Actually Mrs. LaRosa did NOT give a reason for her decision.

Many Westbrook students live within walking distance of Manetuck as well. You are right though, everyone will be moving all around, which is what I think people aren't understanding.......

I believe that Mr. Maniscalco's tenure as a principal of ES surpasses some of the other principals. Mr. Simon stated last night that principals are tenured to a specific postition and that is how it is determined. I believe the last 2 ES to receive tenure as principals of ES were Ms. Pratt and Ms. Morrison. Mr. Simon did however explain as well that there are still months til school re-opens, principals could retire or find other positions. As with all aspects of the districts situation it is really a one step at a time situation.

That's what I'm saying Jessica. It seemed people weren't understanding the concept that children in the four remaining schools might very well be leaving those schools. I thought maybe I was missing something? It's not as easy as : send Westbrook kids to Oquenock and kirdahy to bay view. That wouldn't work.

A vote is allowed at the discretion of the BOE.

And @ Enough, you really are a petty, small minded, childish person. You wanted Oquenock to close because of ME? You are ridiculous.

I've said countless times, just because my school stays open doesn't mean my kids will go there. They are rezoning and redistricting all of West Islip.

And you know something, I do believe they had it in their heads to close Captree and Oquenock for years. I truly believe that. I think something changed their minds in the last couple of weeks/days. Since the Board was so divided it is obviously they struggled with the decision. This decision was a shock for everyone.

And there you have it! Holy Smokes. Don't tell me human nature isn't about divide and conquer. This dingbat actually admitted to it. You need to run for the BOE. You are a deliberate hater. Unstable and really OFF. I think Jessica's time and energy was part of the reason why this decision was made. If they were listening even a little bit then they would know that Westbrook has the most potential to rent. I am sure Jessica feels terrible for those of Kirdahy and Westbrook, but kudos to Jessica and all the rest who did what they could to create debate with suggestions that made more sense than the plans that were supposedly in play from what was being spread inside the rumor mill and at backyard parties.

We can olny pray that it was you Jessica. May be you obsession with Patch had something to do with it. You did it. You saved Oquenock!
All those in favor of renaming the school after Jessica aye!

I spoke with both of my boys prior to last nights decision. My older, boy who is 7 looked forward to making new friends, my younger boy who is 5, was a little nervous. Either way they will both be fine.
As for the alienation due to parents, that damage has been done. Anyone who has read these patch threads can clearly see it by defining oneself as a "westbrook", "oquenock" or "Kiraday" parent. When people ask me where my kids go to school I reply "West Islip". I do find it interesting that some parents of Oquenock students left with looks of saddness even though the school was spared. And kudos to them for seeing the bigger picture, whereas Jessica - you left with a big smile and immediately began texting people the results like it was a personal victory. This should be looked at as a sad day for ALL the students and faculty of the West Islip school district, not as a victory for some and a loss for others.

@Frank, COME ON. AGAIN, just because Oquenock is staying open doesn't guarantee that all attending Oquenock will continue to attend, OK. Obviously SOMETHING changed some of the BOE member's minds. I DOUBT it was anything I said. The fact is that Oquenock is SAFER, has a better parking lot, CAN FIT EVERYONE, COSTS LESS TO RUN and Westbrook has a better potential for rental income. Again, sooner or later, they have to start thinking about money and crunching the numbers. AGAIN, EVERYONE is getting rezoned and redistricted. EVERYONE will be affected. Which is WHY everyone should have been fighting against the decision to close 2 ES.

I would like to say that no one really knows the true reason why Oquenock was spared, but in my own personal opinion, I feel that the unity of that school had to help in some way. You know that saying "the squeaky wheel gets the grease"? Every meeting Oquenock parents were there defending their school and I applaud them for that....even tho some kids still might be moved. It was a mighty fight for them and they saved their school. I wish we had a little more of that at Kirdahy....maybe we would've had a chance. Again, that's MY opinion....so don't freak out haters out there.

Actually Oquenock cannot fit everyone, that is why more than one person said last night we will have to dismantle the computer labs for at least one year. Those four extra rooms will be sitting empty at Westbrook!

Honestly Lisa, I think it was the realtors that did it.....

Test scores a so variable they only relate to a very specific situation. The combination of students to teachers to compatibiltiy of teaching and learning styles. There were many, many unexplained years that Westbrook had the lowest scores. Those years did not make Westbrook any less of a school than the new test scores make it any more of school. Teachers and students change all the time as do test scores. Westbrook teachers will be in different buildings, teaching new classes. There is NO REASON to think that good test scores are not attainable in ALL WI schools. We ALL have very bright students and our schools ALL house very bright teachers.

Again, test scores have nothing to do with it. The teachers will all be moving around. The fact that one school has better test scores means nothing. We hold the teachers responsible for good or bad test scores. The teachers at the school with the best test scores are all going to be moving around anyway, so it doesn't matter.

Rich I'm sure your right regarding the marketablility having something to do with the decision. As I'm sure did the rezoning, Westbrook has walkers to both Oquenock and Manetuck. They have students in reasonable bussing distance to PJB if needed. Oquenock has no students in walking distance to any other buildings. There is also the $15,000 or so less per year in electric/fuel expenses. There is also the flow of morning traffic for both car and bus drop offs. And as more than 1 BOE rep. stated there is the security of having a building in a quiet residential area where anyone not familiar with the area would ever know where the building is. And on the other spectrum regarding a vacant building there is a heavier police presence to patrol a vacant building on a main road so there is less likelihood of trouble. So there were I'm sure many other components than 4 classrooms in making this decision. Those 4 classrooms at most would only be a situation for a year. And that is at most. The chances of a computer model being able to work out exactly 525 per building is unlikely. I think the goal would be more to keep the classroom capacity per grade per school at an even level be it contract high or contract low. Keep in mind as well that if I not being a board or study group member can reason this all out the BOE may have had an even longer list to consider and support their decision.

Rich it would be very nice if in order to ease the transition, the staff from the schools that are closing is moved to fill in the positions at the new school. Hopefully they take that into consideration and that is how they determine which teachers go where instead of just moving them all around and restructuring arbitrarily.

At least Irene, I have posted with my full name, I am not trying to hide my identity by only posting a first name or made up user name as some people. And this is why I chose not to run for the WI BOE after 12 years...because of the lack of courtesy people have for one another when one disagrees...so NO I do not enjoy torture...NOR did I ever dish it out...unless you consider trying to SERVE ones community is dishing out torture! BUT for those who are REALLY interested, I continue to serve as a member of Eastern Suffolk BOCES board (also unpaid) because when you sit with young people who have had better educational opportunities due to the programs offered, you know you are doing something worthwhile. And yes, I served from 2008-10 as the state PTA president because advocating for the health, safety & education of children is important work...work for which I also did NOT get paid. So sad that some people don't believe that there are those of us who do NOT do things for our own benefit but for the benefit of others.

I believe so, but if any principal retires or takes another position we will then retain those 2 principals. I can't speak for Bayview's principal but Oquenock has an amazing principal and West Islip should be very sad to lose her. Wherever she ends up, they will be lucky to have her.

Where have you been Susan?! I couldn't agree with you more! BRAVO! Very well said. Every word was spot on. I wish your post could be the last written on this topic.

Sue I will say (not that it need to be said) anyone who has seen how much you bring to the table and how dedicated you are respects and values your opinions and experiences. You are the pearls of wisdom since you have worn and continue to wear so many hats. I could not agree more with EVERYTHING you are saying.

Susan I am shocked to see a name like yours posting such comments. If someone was attacking members of the BOE personally or physically I would completely agree with you. These are adults that choose to be on the BOE and for several terms I might add. We as tax payers have the right to question what we do not feel is right. Especially when it comes to our money and of course our children. My daughters school was one that closed yesterday, to no surprise. Although I know this was not a life or death decision I do believe it will have impacts on my children and the wonderful teachers that work with them. As a parent I will step up and do whatever I need to to make this change the best for my girls. But I will be questioning the BOE on all further decisions in this matter. There are a lot more changes coming and parents have to step up and get involved. You posting your rants tells people to let the BOE do whatever they want because they are not paid for it??? It's torture? With all due respect because I do not know you but maybe the problem is not BOE now, maybe it was the one from (1994-2006) that lead us to these problems.

Amen!

@ Christine, I think you have completely misunderstood my posts. I am in no way suggesting that anyone should not question the board, You should & it is your right to do so. In fact, if you reread them, I have not even offered my opinion as to whether or not I think the board made the right decision. I simply said that I do not think them either incompetent or acting out of a conflict of interest as others have accused them. I am disturbed by the lack of civil discourse and am always bothered when people think board members are paid & that is why they serve. So I was simply stating a fact - they are not paid...and my comment about torture was meant to be sarcastic humor...however, I keep forgetting there is no font that denotes that. But I ask this, others are allowed to post thoughts but because of who I am, I cannot??? You are right, you do not know me! You stated "If someone was attacking members of the BOE personally or physically I would completely agree with you." And yet in your final comment you attacked me. Enough said!

Susan- my name is Catherine not Christine. I stand by what I said we are in this position because of past decisions. You stated that you were tortured by sitting on the BOE who helped in making those past decisions. I do not have a problem with your opinion about what you feel, read what you wrote, you are telling us how to feel and act. You were a member of the study group, correct? You have many connections in groups in WI. You had your voice heard let other people speak now.

Apologies Catherine about mistyping your name. Yes I was a member of the study group which was broken into 4 subgroups to study 2 options each. The charge of the study group was to research & present information NOT a recommendation but I was unable to attend some of the final meetings or the presentation to the board due some medical issues with my father.

Again I think you misunderstand - I am offering my own OPINION not telling anyone what to think or how to feel - but since I was in the same situation when my children attended Masera & it was closed, I can relate to the situation now.

As for being tortured - as I explained - the torture is not being on the board it's people accusing you of things that are not true & presuming to know what is in your heart & mind.

Well said Irene, hard to imagine that Westbrook which is almost smack in the middle of West Islip is closing. It's like removing the heart and asking the armpit to do the heart's job

Sure I can & people who know me would agree...

No Irene, it is you who can't be objective. You will never get it.

Her name is Catherine and there is no attack when the word maybe is before her comment. When you sit on boards and comment like we are the ones torturing you, you better believe it. You did not use the term in sarcastic humor either, you only back peddlenow to do mor e damage control.
"Susan Vitale Lipman
8:37 am on Friday, January 13, 2012
Rich, The BOE does NOT get paid, they volunteer for this torture."

Irene, If I thought people wouldn't have recognized the sarcasm, I would have stated it up front...no backpedaling! And I apologized to Catherine for mistyping her name.

Hindsight is always 20/20 - if any of us had a crystal ball into the future, some decisions might have been made differently....but one can only make a decision based on the facts before you at the time...

So easy to be an arm chair quarterback...Why don't you try walking the walk & run for the board?

Will you stop already? I guess instead of getting angry with you I should be flattered that you would think that I hold so much weight that they would make this decision based on ME. Seriously, get your head examined.

Really is there a reason to be nasty? I have no ego, nor do I have political ambition & what personal gain do you think I got out of serving? So why didn't you run???

Nice to see Irene is doing her part to bring the community together........what a way to go through life

The firing line for 12 years? The occasions I have had to watch you in action, you sure as heck looked like you were enjoying yourself to me. I remember one time in particular, broke my heart, but there you were sitting with all your cronies enjoying yourselves. I wish I had the permission to tell you to your face how Heartless you were, but I wasn't allowed. I lament a missed opportunity. So here I am now, and I don't care what you have done because from that one situation, I will always view you and those others you sat with as heartless! You bring it upon yourselves. Shame on you!

Irene - the torture was/is not BEING on the board - it's having people accuse you of things that are not true ...whatever decision you are referring to as heartless, I can assure you that no decision I ever made was done with callous disregard to anyone regardless of what it looked like! If, as you have indicated, you were there & involved, then you know decisions of the board are based on the information & recommendations presented. I will never say that every decision we ever made was always right but I will say that they were made with the information & recommendations we had given to us. Have we ever found out something later that might have caused us to decide differently - of course we have! But as we all must we tried to demand better information & ask more demanding questions. I have never suggested I was perfect or that every decision ever made was always right, don't know anyone who is perfect, except my divine creator and that is whom I will allow to judge me, my motives & my behavior!

Susan you are right. But again, when you choose to sit on the BOE, the criticism comes with the territory.

Jessica - I agree about honest criticism - clearly I opened myself up to that when I was on the board & just by my posting my opinion. However, I firmly believe that people can agree to disagree & have a dialogue without resorting to insults, name calling & bullying behavior...

Susan, don't count on it! It really is amazing how adults can be the worst bullies you have ever seen. It is real easy to hide behind a fake name and sling insults - trust me I have been dealing with it for months now.

I absolutely agree with Lori Morello Grimaldi. She realizes what the situation is about ,the children. My kids also attend Westbrook and I think my kids have had an excellent experience there. My daughter too will not spend her last year at Westbrook but she is ok with it. My little first grader cried herself to sleep. However the point is its a great school, great group of people,(parents,teachers). We are a famliy. It is sad however, like Lori said we will make this year at westbrook one of our best! Thanks for putting all in perspective Lori! :)

No. It is my understanding that the BOE is not looking to sell or lease long term. On this I can agree 100%. The population IS increasing and enrollment will increase as well, sooner than they think, in my opinion, and we WILL need those buildings back for OUR children!

Honestly, this was a bad decision. 1 MS should have been closed and only 1 ES. Because it has been going around the rumor mill that Oquenock and Captree would be closed, I feel that people in the other schools really didn't care enough to stand up and fight that for ALL elementary schools. I do think that they had their decision made to close both Oquenock and Captree, and that something changed their minds in the last few days. That said, I've been saying that it really doesn't matter which schools they closed. Because they are closing 2, EVERYONE is getting rezoned. Who knows where any of us will end up? If Westbrook would have remained open, there is no guarantee that all of the Westbrookers would still be attending school there in September. Closing 1 MS and 1 ES would have been easier, would have saved more money, & would have affected the fewest amount of students.

you keep saying they had there minds made up jessica but at the last minute it all changed do you really believe it was because of all your posts. insane now it doesnt matter what schools they close. really jessica. you were on here the other day saying how your daughter wouldnt be able to handle changing schools so dont tell other people it doesnt matter and stop saying that you might have to move to another school because you know deep down you wont. what block do you live on? exactly. you said it was already decided and you were wrong again so stop posting what a hardship it is for you when the only thing is going to be a few new friends for your children

You are really mental. Like I said, she is probably not going to be going to Oquenock because of where we live. I truly can see us going somewhere else. So just so you know, it is actually my worst nightmare to tell her that her school is remaining open but she can't go to school there. Nothing to do but wait and see. And AGAIN, you psycho, I don't think it was anything I said that got them to change their minds. I think maybe the realtors probably had something to do with it.

If they cared about ANYTHING I said, they would have voted to close 1 MS and 1 ES, so stop with your craziness.

good luck ryan

Bob - agree with you on all accounts!!!

@Enough, so you are someone I know. Isn't that interesting.

Do you all really think AnnMarie wanted to be the deciding vote? She was in a no win situation no mattwer which way she went! Yes she has a neice and nephew in the school that will stay open but her girls went to the school that is closing where I'm sure she has lots of friendships with people that were formed there. You think that was easy??? I may not agree with some of her "opinions" and I've let it be known more than once however, no matter what she chose I truly felt terrible for her and would not have wanted to be in her position at that moment!!

Actually, doesn't Ann Marie also have nieces and nephews that go to Westbrook as well? I don't know that for a fact, but I believe someone did mention that to me not too long ago, so not really sure that that is the reason she chose one building over the other. Also, I agree Fed Up, Westbrook was Ann Marie's children's school, and I know she was very involved over there and has many, many friends there. I am sure that it was some other reason that changed her mind. Truly, I think the realtors had a lot to do with their decision.

@ Enough, you know my husband so I'm guessing you already know where I live. Sure seems like it. Maybe you can come over and talk it over with me over drinks instead of stalking me on the internet under a fake name???

Since you know where I live, it should be obvious to you that there is a possibility I am moving out of Oquenock. This house was zoned for a different school at one time so I can see them rezoning this house again to go somewhere else.

I stand by my statement that I believe the realtors changed their minds. That is why the decision was so split. At first it seemed cut and dry - they all wanted Oquenock and Captree to close. After the realtors came in, it seemed a better choice to earn money to close Westbrook. Am I happy about this decision? NO. I STILL think it is a mistake to close 2 ES. I can't say it enough. But sadly, everyone thought they would close Oquenock and Captree and for some reason didn't care enough to get up and speak out against the closure of 2 ES. They didn't care because they didn't think it would affect their school. And again, even if it doesn't affect your school, EVERYONE will be moved around and rezoned, which is what I have been trying to say for all this time. Even though you thought it wouldn't affect you, IT WILL, so you should have opened your mouth.

Irene...Have you ever apologized to your kids for the financial mistakes you've made over the years?......How about the bad parenting decisions?.......you should be ashamed of yourself.......

Jack, what a ridiculous analogy. When I make financial mistakes I owe no one an explanation BECAUSE IT IS MY MONEY. It is not wrong to criticize people who make mistakes with OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY, nor is it wrong for those who made the mistakes to admit that they made them.

really Jessica......Do you think your financial decisions don't affect your kids life?.....How about when people go on a public blog and criticize their own kids?...Do you think that might have an affect on their kids life?.......Irene wants a former BOE member to apologize for decisions the BOE member made in good faith......Why wouldn't you apologize to your children, for bad decisions that you made in good faith?

Not sure that financial decisions is what she is referring to...I believe she is referring to decision that effect people...and to answer her question, I can think of occasions where I have, where I probably should have & where it was not warranted. I did say in another post that I am not perfect & I know of no one who is...

Jack I wouldn't apologize to my children for spending MY money. Your analogy continues to make no sense.

I did answer...

Irene, it was answered and honestly. I think you are back to a personal vendetta with the board thing again, which is not timely to the issues at hand. If you actually have concern for the children of today stop going back to whatever your issues of yesterday.

Actually it is Westbrook that has more classrooms than Oquenock. 3 more classrooms. that is the Problem with this option. We do not have enough rooms to fit the students already!

Of course electic costs are lower, the building is smaller.

Gerry you say that Westbrook has more classrooms than Oquenock, but NYS says differently. AGAIN go take a look at the building inspection reports from NYS.

Jack, life turned out? Whose life? What are you talking about?

Bravo Samantha!

Samantha, I can only hope my children are like that Garvey girl. A true inspiration.

Yes a wonderful inspiring story...with a very timely point!

I guess we'll see Rich.............

well said mom

Your life Irene....... anonymously sitting behind your keyboard, bitterly blasting a person that many consider a Pillar of the Community, for some perceived grievance from over a decade ago.......really?........Is this how you saw yourself turning out?.......

Tom, I think we all agree, but what's the solution?....We have very little industry to share the tax burden. Up until now we have been able to maintain what I consider a very good school district. i moved here 20 yrs ago because of our schools and am quite happy with the education my kids received (still receiving)......IMO maintaining after school programs such as sports,band ect is vital, as is keeping two MS's.....We are going to lay off teachers,and administrators but we are also going to have to pay higher taxes.....People hate to hear it, but the bottom line is, if you actually have kids in the school district, your taxes are a bargain......the cost of private schools around the state (especially in NYC) blow away what most of us pay on our annual school tax bill.......I also think many people in this town would be shocked at how many of our elderly neighbors vote yes every year on the school budget.......I say put up the option to pierce the 2% cap and see if we can pass it...

ANYONE who thinks keeping to MS open is VITAL has to have his head examined.

shh......time to screw the cap back on.....tomorrow you will wake up and feel like disagreeing with people like a grownup....see you then

Joanna, 1st let me say that I have 3 kids, one in college, one going to college in Sept, and one going into the HS.......I'm a huge proponent of extracurricular activities, I think they are as important to a child's education as their actual academic studies......I think that many kids from WI get into better schools, (sometimes the best schools in the world) because of the extracurricular activities that they got started on in MS.........Having two MS's means that twice as many kids are getting started in such activities, I'll use as an example football, you are developing two QB's, 4 RB's, dozens of lineman and Dbacks......If you have only one MS, 1/2 of those kids don't even make the team........I stated this on an earlier thread, I know of 3 graduates from this year that are going to phenomenal schools (2 Ivy, and one top 30 university) that IMO they would not be going to if we had only one MS.....i don't believe they would of continued in the EC activity that got them into college if they were cut in 7th grade, and they might have been.......We have the advantage of sending our kids to a small town school district, right up until HS, and to me that's a huge advantage.......my own kids are going to Colleges that they otherwise would not have gotten into because of ECs, that started in 7th grade....it's a very important time in your kids life, and IMO it's a great time to not be overwhelmed with too many kids

ok....Good Night Irene

I just state what I know and how I have seen things which got us into this hole. Then Jack shows up and needs to take me down and level me off, to which I am no shrinking violet.

You could retort intelligently, with just facts, and not be construed as a shrinking violet. Same goes for jack.

Irene no matter what I know or don't know. You are digging into Susan as a BOE member when she was trying to offer words of comfort as a community member. It is not appropriate. It is bringing up old business that the clock cannot turn back and change. It is not the 1st time that you've demonstrated an unrealistic resentment for the BOE-apparently any BOE. Here, now, today the school district has some real problems and the next few months are going to be very difficult as more of the situation unfolds. Please just bash in the past, what we need as a community is to work together to damage control the future.

Sorry~ meant "Please don't just bash in the past,"

Not really Anonymous. Closing 1 MS - all the kids from the closed MS would go TOGETHER to the other MS. No one would be separated from their friends at all. It would have been an easier transition. And keeping the 6th grade in the ES - the 5th grade wouldn't go anywhere, they would just remain in their ES for the next year instead of moving up to MS.

You know what though, it's not really about the money.......Not too many Colleges are making money on their swim teams,lacrosse teams,marching bands, orchestras, golf teams etc.......but the scholarships and simple "I can get you in slots" are tremendous for these extracurricular s......#2 kid in his class at WI gets wait listed at Georgetown, #85 kid who can play the trombone really well, gets in.....

Agreed Fed Up, this is a very sad day in West Islip. Even though my daughter's school will stay open, there is no guarantee she will going there come September. Moreover, it pains me to see my Westbrook and Captree friends going through this. And, it is very, very upsetting to see my old elementary school close. There were many, many wonderful memories made there throughout the years, and every time I set foot in Westbrook I enjoyed showing my daughter all my classrooms and talking about my teachers and my experiences there. No, I don't think anyone got what they wanted and I don't think anyone is truly happy with this decision. I agree wholeheartedly that I WISH EVERYONE FOUGHT FOR THE CLOSURE OF 1 MS AND 1ES. The closure of 2 ES was a huge mistake.

I was unsure of what Geller's reason meant. He said because the majority of the realtors said Westbrook was more marketable. 2 realtors said Westbrook, 2 said Oquenock, and 3 did not say either. That does not sound like a mjority to me. i just would love to know where they are going to put these kids now that they don't have enough classrooms.

They will not fit in Oquenock that's for sure! Oh wait, that's right, they'll take away the computer lab, put the art on a cart & put the special ed kids in a trailer, it will be fine. But at least closing the bigger school will make everyone feel "safe".

Again Gerry, the 2 realtors who said Oquenock was the better choice only suggested Oquenock for SALE, because it is in a residential area, they only thought it would be good for housing and the district is not interested in a long term lease or sale.

As for the safety thing, again, having an empty building in a residential neighborhood is not safe! It isn't safe for the people living around the building. I've seen it happen with my own eyes with Southgate. It just becomes a hang out spot and no one wants that near their homes. Because Oquenock is tucked away in the community there is no traffic concerns about Higbie (which everyone cared SO much about at the thought of closing one MS all of a sudden it was such a problem about the traffic on Higbie Lane and getting everyone where they have to go). Same "problem" occurs with Westbrook and all the additional buses and traffic going there. One way in and one way out complicates the problem even more. Plus the traffic on Higbie is dangerous for kids crossing the street, etc.

All of that coupled with the marketability of the school did make it a better choice in some of their minds.

Yes, no matter what someone will be affected. The problem is this this poor decision affects a lot more kids. Mr. Simon, the man whose job is to understand all of these things, has said we will not have enough classrooms with this option.
We are already knocking down walls in three buildings and turning speech/reading rooms into regular classrooms. That means those 6 speech/reading teachers now don't have classrooms. Gusranteed they will wind up teaching in closets and storage rooms.
In addition the computers in the remaining four buildings need to be taked out of the computer lab and put in the library. If the librarian is teaching a class and another teacher brings their class in to use the computers it will be a disaster. What kid can focus when two lessons are being taught in the same room? Of course they may be doig this becasue they are taking library away from our kids and just haven't told us yet.
So you see this decision affects more people in a negative way. All kids suffer when they lose a computer lab, have art and music on a car, have to go to support classes in a closet. Let us not forget this year two weeks in to school they had to add another 6th grade class at Udall beacuse the numbers were too high. The same thing happened at Oquenock the year before, they had to add another second class. What will happen then, the kids will be in trailers when a bigger school is sitting empty???

Actually Gerry Oquenock housed over 500 kids BEFORE the extension was built so there is no reason why more than that won't fit now.

The speech and reading teachers don't need regular sized classrooms. That was a luxury they had with low enrollment. Same goes for the ESL room. These people aren't teaching classes of 20+ kids at a time. I don't see too much of a problem with art on a cart as you say, and I don't think they will need to touch the music room. And the library at Oquenock is huge. I'm sure they can put a partition up so the computer class can go on without disturbing those in the library OR they can schedule computer time DURING library time for those classes - for instance, one class has library and computer right after it.......

Gerry the sky is not falling the education system is changing. The districts are forced to make changes with it. You are sooo upset about 3-4 classes. They are not the life raft on a sinking ship. It is at the most for a period of 1year. I agree with your statement regarding library and computer however. I think that the experience gained to these children in a computer lab is very important. It is part of what will prepare them for their futures. It is a wonderul program. MY personal opinion would be that art be brought back to the classrooms I would say music , but that may become disruptive to the other classes in session. It would be a period of 1 year which with elementary class I truly do not think the students or the quality of their work or learning experience would suffer. I do however think that the library should not be disrupted nor should the computer lab. In additon expense wise and obviously we are working at saving money. The relocation of computer equipment could be costly not to mention potential damage to expensive computers, where relocating art or music would not be as costly. And again non of these options may be needed depending on rezoning and class sizes.

Rob M, the teachers have given back. On more than one occasion. Why should it be on their back? What has admin given back?

The WI teachers have given back the past two years. There have been previous threads where this has been discussed.

The teachers have given back. I think the more cost effective and equitable idea was when Mr. Simon presented furlough. I do not think that WITA felt it acceptable last year and opted for a deferment to raises instead, but this is a new year. With a new set of rules in place and the entire district not just teachers and students should be incorporated into anything that will try to save money through salary. Furlough would have affected the whole districts from pt aids to Mr. Simon himself and per his projection would have saved at least 1 million dollars.

Jessica, i see you have done your homework.

And Mr. Simon has repeatedly said his numbers are accurate. A simple count of the floor plans posted in his presentation will prove it.

Ok Gerry, because Mr. Simon said so, it must be true. Isn't it possible he had the wrong information????? Why should we think a NYS inspection report is wrong?

Jessica, please stop talking, you are ruining your chances of them naming 1 of the trailers after you. Now we all know that you think you know all the answers, but there is not enough space in The Horvath School at Oquenock to house all those children and classes. What was now guaranteed is that they will NEVER add any new sections there, because they won't fit. The class sizes will now most definitely be maxxed, and any new enrollees to that school after school starts will be sent where there is room. Good bye to the computer labs (in 2012, who needs them?), any child receiving support services will get them probably in a hall, back of a room or somewhere else. Maybe if they are lucky, they will be in the trailer, they will get to walk out there and get fresh air to get the help they need. The art teacher can bring crayons to the class & kids can sing anywhere, right? Music teachers can put a harmonica in their pocket.

You know what Oquenuts? I didn't WANT THIS DECISION. I wanted NO SCHOOLS to close. And since it became evident that that wasn't going to happen, I WANTED ONE MS AND ONE ES. But that didnt' happen because no one wanted to stand up and speak out that it was a bad idea. It isn't MY fault that there will be crowding in the schools and no room for growth. But we'll still have the 2 closed buildings to reopen once enrollment goes up again. WHICH WE WOULDN'T HAVE IF OQUENOCK CLOSED because no realtors wanted Oquenock for a short term lease, which is what the district was looking for because they can see that we will need the buildings in the future when enrollment increases. We can make money off of Westbrook, and that is why they made that decision. Whereas Oquenock would just stand there empty surrounded by houses where kids and vagrants from all over could use the parking lot to drink, have sex and do lots of drugs.

That was too easy.... I made you say Oquenuts.

Grow up.

You are welcome, although I am not sure that it will answer your question, as there is a discrepancy between the 2.

Can everyone stop for one moment to think about this . Kirdahy (one of our smallest school) cost over $40,000 more a year to run. First Natural gas is not that much cheaper there must be some other reason for the bill to be that high (repairs needed I would bet). Also it only costs $50,000 to covert. Why didn't we? Did it take this for them to realize that, then why do we have a Director of Buildings and Grounds? With the left over bond money we purchased the smart boards for the schools (I wanted smart boards also) but we opted to put in all buildings even though we knew at least one would close verse fixing this issue? That makes no sense and is part of my disappointment in this situation. We fire teachers last year but than throw money away on heating the building. For all you BOE members following.... this heating bill will be one of my questions at the next meeting so if you can get a head start on looking into it that would be great. Sorry Mr. Bosse we are going to need a little more of an explanation on this.

I agree Catherine. Why was every other building except Captree converted?

@ Catherine didn't James Bosse want a new truck???

Both that are up for reelection voted to keep Oquenock open.

They will put the minutes up eventually then you can see. I couldn't tell you exactly who voted for what. I know there is one woman from Oquenock who did mention she wanted to start a class action lawsuit, but I couldn't tell you if she actually did begin the process or if anyone signed on with her.

Next, I do agree that Kirdahy seems in better condition. Both Westbrook and Oquenock are very nice schools in great condition.

Both Boe members whose seats are up this year voted to keep Oquenock open- geller and Zotto.

I have to say, I think you give Oquenock too much credit. I don't think it was anything any of us did that changed their minds. I really believe the realtors had A LOT to do with it. Gerry, you keep saying that the realtors also expressed interest in Oquenock, but again, they only expressed interest in Oquenock for long term lease/sale. There is nothing that can go where Oquenock is except for homes because it is in the middle of the neighborhood. And the BOE expressly stated they didn't want to do anything long term which is the one thing I can absolutely agree with. You will see the enrollment will increase again and we will need that space.

Thank you Jessica, I was going to post the same. You beat me to it. No one said each building would hold the same # of students. Westbrook families which I have spoken to feel they will be divided into 3 groups. The families north of Sunrise, some of whom can walk to Manetuck will go there. The families living directly across from Oquenock (actually directly between Oquenock and Westbrook) as well as those in walker distance of Oquenock will go to Oquenock and those living South of Best Yet will probably go to PJB. The Kirdahy students would go between Bayview and Bellew. There will obviously be some variation to rezoning since special ed. is the first to factor into the equation, but it is vey workable and in time I think the community will see that this type of rezoning would actually increase the community feel within each building rather than dividing neighborhoods like the present configuration. There should be no need for trailors. If on any outside chance there was then why not let those be for music or art???? They do not necessarily need to be primary classrooms.

But Mr. Simon did say they will make all schools as equal as possible. he said to expect 525 kids in each building. That is adding 200 more students. Even the teachers in that building say they don't know where they can fit 200 more students. A posted capacity and a comfortable amount are 2 very different things.

Gerry I agree. Which is why a better choice would have been to close 1 MS and 1 ES. Now we will have 4 ES buildings at about 90% or more and 2 MS buildings operating at 43% - 59%.

Larry. Oakneck and Pace are south of montauk and they currently go to Kirdahy/Captree and their kids school is one to be closed.

anyone want to help Larry remove his foot from his mouth?

What doesn't make sense is having 2 MS operating at LESS than half capacity, while the elementary schools will be OVER capacity with no room for growth. That is what makes no sense.

I don't know what the cost of trailers would be for 1 year I don't even know that we would need them. But it is a reasonable option to move art and or music out to them if space was needed for 1 year. The kids would actually probably think it funny to have to be walked outside 1 time a week for these specials. Then the computer situation and libraries could stay in place. I'm sure relocating computer equipement would come with a cost. 1 trailer per school for music or art would would be all that would be needed if 3 classrooms is really where we fall short. I think again it all will just take some creativity for a short period of time. Right now the librairies in all buildings have already been closed a couple of days a week since librarians share buildings. Maybe music classes could even meet in the library when it is not in use. Maybe a schedule couldbe set up to share that space. Trying to think of reasonable solutions as opposed to creating more confusions is the only way that this will work and right now this is what has to work. Everyone can and is debating and accusing all the could haves and should haves but what we really need to worry about is the do haves. We do have 4 buildings, we do have financial issues, we do have a superintendent who is working hard to be open to public input, we do have a BOE that also has set up a panel for public participation- so right now to get the job done everyone needs to be part of the solution and not add to the problems.

The bigger building would also cost us $15,000 more to light and heat. That would be an additional perminent cost. Trailers would be a very temporary expense, so over time the cost would more that be made up for.

I don't know how much Mr. Simon is to blame. I got the impression he wanted to close one middle school. I felt like he was frustrated with the BOE's decison to close two middle schools but went along with it to present a united front. I could be wrong, but that it is how I felt watching and listening to him at the meetings.

Maybe with state testing being such a concern and a middle school structure being a productive method of teaching they will just keep the MS buildings and consolidate to the Princeton method. 1 Ms with 3-5 -1 MS with 6-8 and 2 ES with k-2(1 north and 1 south) then in a couple of years there could actually be 2 more properties. Think of the financial savings, more land for developers, fewer buses on the road. Then with the finacial savings of closing 2 ES buildings I'm sure that everyone with ES children now and MS children later will be ok with 2 ES buildings closing. Look I thought 1ES and 1MS was the way to go, but face it there were a large population of people who felt differently. There were 2 petitions started and an immediate e-mail chain started from the MS to leave their buildings open. Maybe that is the whole first issue with why 2 ES actually closed. Lots of ES folks were on Patch talking about what should be but the MS folks immediately reacted and put into play what would be.

@ Gerry. IT did seem that Mr. Simon was of the opinion that a MS and ES should be closed. However once the board dismissed that proposition and decided it would be 2 ES, he was very clear that he thought it should be the largest schools left open.

Anna - I was at the meeting. This is what I remember:

Mr. Smith voted to close Westbrook and Kirdahy. I believe his reasons were marketabilty. Maybe someone else remembers for sure???

Mr. Zotto - Close Westbrook and Bayview. He felt the children were safer at Oquenock because Westbrook is on a main road. No reason for his other choice.

Mr. Ulrich - Close Oquenock and Kirdahy. Westbrook is bigger and would not require losing computer labs or art on a cart. Also said the integrated classes that are at Westbrook were promised by the district they would remain there and they need extra space.

Mr. Brady - Close Oquenock and Kirdahy becsue of size and special ed.

Mr. McGuiness - Close Oquenock and Kirady beacuse of size and special ed.

Mr. Geller - CLose Westbroo and Kirdahy because Westbrook is more marketable.

Mrs. laRosa - Close Westbrook and Bayview - no reasons given

I believe it was Mr. Smith who stated the safety concerns as well Gerry. I believe the first 2 votes cast were to close Westbrook over Oquenock because as former law enforcement they felt Oquenock was a better choice to keep open because of safety concerns.

If Westbrook remained open...
TRAILERS?? Nope
Room for growth, as per your knowledge of an impending "Baby Boom", covered.
Computer labs, room for that too.
parking spaces... Westbrook has more

Seems to me your original platform concerning closures was correct, but once that wasn't going to happen you lobbied for a school you knew full well couldn't handle additional students with all that they have become accustomed to. Why? Because of marketability?? So now we trust a realtor more then actual educators, parents who reside within the district, and a study group? After all the Realtors have done such an outstanding job of keeping WI commercial properties at almost full capacity, West Islip is a veritable hotbed of commercial activity, and the wonderful job they have done with the La Grange property, heard Good Sam is getting that, more lost tax revenue.

There are pros and cons concerning safety at EITHER school. Now we will have more buses and parent traffic on side streets. I would want as few "extra" buses on my side streets as possible. And please dont say that just because Oquenock is not on a main rd. that it is any better. 29 houses boarder Westbrooks property, and 28 boarder Oquenock. So they are both pretty much the same. You have said time and time again that you wanted an MS and ES closed, and I totally agree with you on that. You have since complained about the potential for classes becoming overcrowded (agreed) , possibility of loosing computers and the horror of trailers (Agreed). Then let me ask you this.

As soon as the board decided that it WAS going to be 2 ES. Why would you not want the largest of the schools to remain open??

It has nothing to do with the principal. That building is not set up to use natural gas as the others are.

Of course it has nothing to do with the principal. Principals are not responsible for that sort of thing. That is BOE.

Yes they will survive, but I don't think they will fit. That is the issue.

Was it agenda driven or could it have something to do with how he and the Oquenock PTA president spent time discussing this?

No matter which building closed, the remaining 4 would still be operating at over the optimum 80%, which is why the better choice would have been consolidating the MS. I love our PTA president, but you give her too much credit......just as these posters are on here insinuating my comments made them change their mind......I do truly think the realtors has a lot to do with it, and the safety argument really cannot be discounted. Remember, as he said, Oquenock is nestled in the community. An empty abandonned building is just asking for trouble. Westbrook's location makes it easier to keep a bad element out of the empty building.

Ann Marie also visited the schools. I can't remember if she gave a reason or not as to why she chose Westbrook over Oquenock. She did reiterate her reason for voting to close 2 ES over closing 1 MS & 1 ES.

Are you really expecting someone so dedicated to her community to actually give that community a reason why she voted the way she did on something with such an enormous effect on her community? Now you're just being unreasonable. She's only a volunteer, after all. Besides, she's too busy posting comments on every fluff piece that comes up - this discussion doesn't qualify.

The teachers did give back Rob. And Dr. Parvey is leaving, hopefully they consolidate her position with someone elses, and don't fill it with someone else with a high salary we'll have to pay. I agree with the vice principals at the HS. We can make do with only 2. When I was in HS we had only 2. 1 responsible for grades 9 &11, the other responsible for 10 & 12.

If there will be room why did Mr. Simon say space will be a problem? He clearly said we need 104 classrooms and this option only has 101 classrooms. How will they fit? It is total classrooms that are a problem, not rezoning. I have been at every meeting and this has been discussed. It is on the district website if you would like to check it out for yourself.

They will never fit. End of story. Wheel out the trailers, good thing 1 of the largest schools will now sit vacant. Makes a ton of sense. What was LaRosa's reason again? Oh that's right, she didn't give one. Maybe her cronies on the PAWS committee has an idea? Or maybe it won't sit vacant...

"Oquenuts" you think you are so clever with your ridiculous name making fun of everyone at Oquenock, but where were you when they were discussing this for the past few months? Oh that's right, you just assumed Oquenock would be the school that is closing, so you didn't care to put your two cents in, but now here you are. Maybe your time would have been better spent ensuring that the BOE chose the option that saved the most money AND ensured that all of our buildings would be operating efficiently and wouldn't be overcrowded ...... They should have closed a MS and an ES.

This clever name seems to be irking you. Thank you for suggesting how I should have spent my time, that was a great point. I guess I should learn a lesson from someone who spends 23.5 hours a day in front of a computer, maybe we can put the computer lab at your house? Brb my kids need to eat ...

I'm not going to be distracted by being sucked into a ridiculous argument with a child such as yourself. The facts are, no one heard from you until you became unhappy with this decision, a decision we have been on here fighting for months. If you weren't such an infant, you might see that ACTUALLY we should be on the same side. No one is happy with this decision, it is a bad one. The best decision would have been the closure of one MS & 1 ES, which would have ensured that ALL buildings were operating efficiently. Now, the taxpayers are funding 2 MS buildings that are operating at less than half their capacity. And, by the way, I'm unemployed, like SO MANY people are, so unfortunately I have time to sit in front of my computer.

Can I hire you to give me blogging lessons?

Get a clue. At least I spend my time involved in what goes on in this community. If you want to fault me for that, go right ahead. I don't get on here to call people names and act like a child. At least I am stating facts. The fact is, where were you????? EVERYONE is unhappy with this decision. It wasn't Oquenock against the world, it was all of Elementary School that should have been fighting, but because you didn't feel like your school would be affected, you were nowhere to be found UNTIL NOW. Again, we are all going to be rezoned and redistricted. You sit there and say that Oquenock was only fighting because we wanted to save our school, but what Oquenock understood that you didn't was that we would all be redistricted anyway. Now here you are unhappy, and you just want to sling insults at Oquenock, when you should have been joining us in our fight against the BOE.

So is that a no to the computer lab at your house?

You know what Oquenuts, come on over..........I do love entertaining. We can play computer lab if you want........

Those situations go back to adding aids to classrooms. Classes can go over contract and have aids added to the room. Under the circumstances with finance regardless of the number of classrooms it is very doubtful that additional classes would be added if the population increases by a couple of students. An aids salary is far less costly than a teachers and while they do not overall instruct the class the aids to provide support to students having any questions or difficulties. They also help the teachers with providing overall support. I believe in OLL it is common practice in grades k-3 to have aids or at least it used to be when I inquired about sending my first born. I've also heard from friends in Bay Shore that they have aids in the majority if not all ES classes. So while many will say it should not be done, it is again a widely used and acceptable way of maintaining the students education in a larger class setting.

That's the truth! If our opinions mattered so much, they would have closed 1 ES & 1 MS. Truly they are giving us way too much credit.

Kristina
I know Mr. Zotto went with what he felt was right for the kids and when we spoke to him after the meeting he felt very bad for Mr Maniscalco who i know he is friends with and who he likes very much. He said he struggled with his decision like all of the Board members did. I respect him for the reasons he decided, which may not be popular for some and yes my daughter goes to Westbrook ...but we will survive and move forward on a positive note and we will rise up and be fine with the right mentality as we go forward. So i agree nothing had persuaded Mr Zotto other then his own thoughts.

Rest assured, Mr. Maniscalco will still have a job. From what I have seen, he is a fantastic principal, a great man, and wherever he goes, that school will be supremely lucky! Thankfully he will remain with us. Unfortunately for Oquenock and Bayview's principals, the jury is still out. Oquenock's principal is absolutely amazing, and it will be a sad day if she is forced to leave us...............

Uh oh, I feel another Horvath campaign starting...

I'm sorry "Oquenuts", but your children would be privileged to be under Mrs. Morrison's watch. You can joke about it all you want, but I personally would have no problem spearheading a campaign, as you say, to ensure Mrs. Morrison keeps her job. Losing her would be a terrible loss to this community. And our loss would be another district's gain.

That said, ALL principals in this district are wonderful. I have yet to hear one bad thing about any of them. We can only hope that by some miracle, all of them remain employed by West Islip.

Yes but if the students came in before the first two weeks is over or even after, it has been said that the student would be placed in the next nearest and available building. No matter what is said the distict can most likely not be split 100% equally,, exact same number of students per building, the exact same number of students per class per grade. The will still be variable for instance Oquenock have 3-1st grade classes of 2 with 21, 1 with 22 and Manetuck have 4 1st grade classes 2 with 21, 1- 20 and 1-with 21. To do an exact split and say every building will have 525 and every class will have 21 I would think completely impossible, because that is not the compostition of households. The rezoning and distribution of students is by household not by age and grade so the intent of the district I believe is to create a more cohesive enviroment and not have some schools with classes of 18 while others have classes of 25, but there will still be some schools with more students and some with less. Some classes with more students and some with less, so if students enroll late adjustments will have to be made. They may have to go to the next nearest building until a space opens in there actual home school. It is as always a situation that can only be addressed if and when it happens It was not a reason to keep Westbrook open.

I didn't move to West Islip for my children to be educated in a classroom full to capacity with an aide. If the larger school was kept open, there would still be some breathing room for the kids, now they will be crammed in like cattle call.

Dorothy, after reviewing NYS building information, actually, I felt that Udall should be the building that closed, because apparently Beach has more classroom space than Udall.

You know what Valerie, you are right. But it means something to me which is why I waste my time!!!!!! I will continue to fight for what is right for our children. ALL of our children. And lucky for me, I could care less about what these people think of me. A lot of people don't post their opinion because they can't take the grief from these morons, but I DON'T CARE!!!!! Their opinons mean NOTHING to me. My parents raised me to stand up for what I believe in, and I will continue to do it as long as I feel necessary. That said, your comments really mean a lot. I appreciate your support and thank you for responding. Being a target doesn't bother me in the least :)

I would like the answer to this as well. We have an educational professional leading our district, yet the elected volunteers chose to vote in THEIR OWN best interest. Is anyone going to address the fact it appears as though in order to "save face" to prove that comments at a party were incorrect, a poor decision was made. Now that one of the smallest schools remains open, for our children to pay the consequences, I hope her family members are proud.

You forgot the integrated classes....

The numbers were on total school district population. The number of classes that Mr. Simon quotes needing is I believe actually based on dividing the total students by total classes evenly which gives 21 per class. But as you can see class sizes vary so I think some fewer classes are needed- it actually breaks down closer to Dr. Parvey's low estimate of 99. The reason the 8-1-1 class would matter is there are fewer students in those classes so they do require extra space. Intergrated classes are pretty much in line size wise with all other classes they just presently have 2 teachers in the room at all times.

Integrated classes are not "pretty much in line", they are classes with a specific ratio and teaching strategy to implement for the students to benefit. Where will the classes go when they are pulled out for their extra support time? The cafeteria? There is no room in Oquenock for this with it filled with classes, Manetuck cannot possibly house ALL integrated grades for the same reason, so now where will these children go? One would think that the BOE member sitting as the special Ed liason would take this into account, one did & one did NOT for a very selfish reason (that was never and will never be stated).

@Questinable choice, having child who's been in special ed. population since early elementary age I am familiar with the intergrated classes. The point of showing how classes could fit into every building was based on class size and most of the intergrated classes run at the size of mainstream classes so they do not when looking at total population to # of classes change these where the 8-1 class does. Also yes space will be needed for specials and my children have and still utilize those as well-even my child not in intergrated. Everyone jumps to the conclusion that if you maintain the belief that it can be done- it must be because it does not concern them. Believe me my kids are quite different and quite unique to themselves so where our schools are concerned it has put me in a variety of situations. Again this comes down to 3 classes and there are other parts of the equation like traffic concerns, marketing, rezoning, overall cost of maintanence that may have been and should have been taken into consideration.

Yes, you are so familiar.... It is integrated not inteRGrated. So, again I ask you, where do you presume the children go for their support time in a building that is already short 3 classrooms? So I guess the 3 classes of integrated children should just "make do" because of traffic concerns that were never fully & appropriately investigated? The other factors you listed are non issues because those were proven to be more beneficial to keep a larger school open.

A better question would be why didn't he fight for the closure of 1 MS and 1 ES, which is what it is implied on this very thread that he wanted.....................................

I cannot speak on behalf of the board, but maybe they looked at the district from a point of view that only community members could. Ya know when the BOE supports the superintendent regarding highering high paid staff or resigning his unexpired contract for example the community shouts Hey wait you work for us not the superintendent. Now because I suppose the decision that they arrived at which was believed by people in the community(even some @ Westbrook and Kirdahy) to be best you are not happy so the BOE should have sided with the superintendent. This is why the BOE can never win if they support the community or think independently they are wrong they did not listen to the superintendent. If they listen to the superintendent then they are accused of not representing the community. I'm sorry if you feel the wrong decision was made, but I do think that the BOE considered the community in a way that while I absolutely respect Mr. Simon he just could not see. They all spoke of the time they spent inspecting each building, they live and travel in the community everyday. I think this was just one time when the BOE felt that the recommendation of Mr. Simon while I'm sure valued, just was not the best fit for the community.

That would be a great question to ask at the next BOE meeting.

how would i feel if my home was next to an adjacent building hmmmm oh wait thats right i use to look out my bedroom window of my parents house forwhat was it ten years at southgate and guess what jess no big deal. what positions do you want these principals to take leave replacement, substitute, there are no jobs didnt we fire over 30 people last year SAVE MONEY! SAVE MONEY! as long as it doesnt effect my childs school or principal. i hope the parents at oquenock are a little more understanding because your spokeswoman is giving you a bad name

Only Mr. Zotto was a former poilice officer, not Mr. Smith.

So not only do you know me but we are practically neighbors! It just gets more and more interesting.....You know what, maybe drug deals and hookers are "no big deal" to YOU but I don't want MY kids near that crap. And guess what, Southgate was overgrown with grass, broken glass, YOU COULD EVEN GET INTO THE BUILDING! Where homeless people would be squatting. I KNOW BECAUSE I HAVE GONE IN THERE. I rode my bike through Southgate to get to Silvia and those other streets back there - it was a shortcut - numerous times and snuck in the building with my friends just because we were feeling adventurous and you know what? IT WAS DANGEROUS. It is a safety issue to have an abandonned empty building in the middle of a neighborhood. And Enough, I'm just saying that one is eligible for retirement and another may have taken another position, then the 4 we have left remain......

I never suggested that Mr. Simon wanted to close an MS and an ES. I thought it was Gerry, but don't jump on me if I am wrong.......I can't remember. He did write that letter but again, he wrote it AFTER the BOE "voted" their unanimous vote at the planning session so he might have just done it to show unity.

I think that the traffic pattern thing was an issue, but I think a bigger safety concern is having Oquenock standing vacant in the middle of the neighborhood whereas Westbrook is easier to police and because of its location easier to keep bad elements out of......

Westbrook is absolutely safe!!! Has there been any documented incidents that would prove it otherwise? I actually went to Westbrook as a child and we all walked to that school. There were never any issues. That is a terrible excuse used by the board for closing a school.

No Oquenock does not have any integrated classes. K and 1st integrated are at Manetuck, 2nd,3rd, and 4th are at Westbrook and 5th is at Bayview

I don't know AM in all honesty to please "everyone" there is NO best decision other than the ability to have done nothing at all. The district could have been left in tact and I guess for most that would have made them happy, but I don't think the tax increase that went along with that decision would have passed the 61% vote or would have made people happy. Am I happy that any building closed NO, but when I resigned myself to the fact that 2 ES were going to close I have to say I've put up several postings explaining that I thought Kirdahy and Westbrook were the right choice. In all truth I've spoken with Westbrook parents who also are able to see why it might just be the best choice. Of course there are many parents who don't. That goes without saying, but I'm sure that the one and only thing that everyone can actually agree on is that no matter what choice was made everyone would not have agreed. There is always going to be unhappiness, but I do agree that the entire community needs to come out and participate in the budget process. Speak loudly with sound solutions and input to ensure that no decisions that will truly be damaging to our childrens education occur. If you believe that library, art, music, fullday kindergarten, public use of buildings, nursing staff, transportation, sports, instruments, drama, computer lab, mst lab, wise program whatever your interests make sure the board knows. Make sure the cuts come from the system and not the students.

They all voted for 2 elementary schools. They said closing a middle school would involve program cuts and they did not think it was a good idea to move 6th grade back to elementary. There was no way to close one MS and fit 6, 7, and 8 in one building. They said in the near future this can be a possibility.

Excellent points, Rob. What people are not understanding is now that the small school remains & the computer lab will be taken away & I'm sure many other things, this will have to happen in ALL schools. Otherwise, who gets to go to the school with the computer lab? Who gets to go to the school with the art room? Who gets to have speech in a closet? I truly hope they do not have to start deciding which class goes in a trailor.

She did not visit Westbrook. Maybe she is like you, though, and knows it all about her child's school already. Can you please ask them to reveal the secret classrooms in Oquenock that you have been stating so vehemently exist? They aren't there, the teachers there are stressed over the fact that 200 additional students will enter, it cannot happen in that small building without serious construction, layout changes and yes, additional space added with trailors.

She has been in the building as a parent. She did not vist as a BOE member and walk the halls with Mr. Simon as she did Oquenock. She has been in Oquenock many times becasue of her niece and nephew, yet still went room to room with Mr. Simon only in that building.

@ Enough, AGAIN of course I worry about my child, but what you refuse to realize is that my child probably won't be going to school at Oquenock in September, which I have accepted. Closing 2 ES was a mistake, it is affecting everyone negatively. Now all of sudden everyone is up in arms, but maybe they should have been up in arms fighting for the other option. And we'll just disagree about Southgate. I'm telling you WHAT I KNOW about what went on there that I saw with my own eyes. And I'm not trusting you to tell me that you were there way more than I was because I'm sure you were not. And is there a problem with Bayview housing self contained special ed?

trust me on the southgate it closed before you could go there. but anyway do you really believe that hookers would hang out in front of oquenock if it closed or are you just completely insane and paranoid? tell me how that would happen would she just stand under the flagpole waiting for johns to drive by? this is west islip not a red light district

Funny, you know how old I am, you know where I live, you know my husband's name, you know everything about me, but do me a favor and stop talking to me until you have the courage to reveal who you actually are.

Empty buildings in the middle of neighborhoods are BAD. BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN THERE. And you know it. So don't give me that crap. It's the truth.

bad things is one thing but you said hookers. just answer the question do you really believe that hookers would be hanging out at oquenock or are you just stretching you believe that oquenock is a better choice because of real estate agents advice and because hookers and drug dealers would hang out at oquenock if it was closed thats what you said. i believe that westbrook should remain open because of the integrated classes and it has more classrooms. now dont come on here and tell me about some nys survey that says oquenock has more classrooms because they dont if you want to use the states survey go ahead but dont forget the state used to run otb and lost money thats right only the govt can lose money on gambling. the house always wins unless you are the govt. the special ed kids should come first you always stated on here how difficult it would be for your child but what about the children in special ed i know jessica we can just ship them to bayview no big deal right? well no big deal for you

Wow! Thanks for letting us know Catherine. Some of my posts were deleted in a different thread. I wrote about Manetucks kindergarten classes being maxed out and some of their students being sent to Bayview and Westbrook. The Patch deleted that. I guess they have a connection in WI and only want certaininfo getting out to the parents.

What happened to my post? Why am I being censored in giving my opinion about how the patch is handling comments? Why is a comment from above that the impersonator responded to still there? Please use better judgement when selecting what is "suitable" for this site.

catherine, I've been at a soccer tournament all day and have no idea what happened with all of this..............................

Why did the patch delete all of Debra's previous patch posts then? But AJ has contacted me claiming this was someone else, I don't believe that excuse but if it is true they should press charges on that person. The patch has record of email.
BTW we have Debra's previous posts and they didn't seem childish but always nasty and mean spirited.

I absolutely agree with Catherine Artusa. There were NO personal attacks on anyone. I read those posts also, and something isn't right. It seems that someone's husband blew the cover of his wife who "may" or "may not" be hiding on the patch under an alias. And now it seems that "someone else" may be trying to hide and protect that family. I wonder if all those "people" may know each other & be friendly with each other. Is there a cover up going on? The West Islip community is not stupid...so please give us a little more credit. I did not mention any names...so I do not expect to get a threatening email to delete my posts. Anyone with half a brain knows exactly who I'm talking about. And I believe Catherine was just trying to let the community know what's going on....as it IS our right since we pay ridiculous tax dollars. And don't say I should've voted if I don't care for the BOE...cuz I didn't vote for any one of them up there. And don't say if I think it's so easy....I should run for the board... I can't be part of the BOE because I have a conscience and am a terrible liar. Some people on the BOE shouldn't be allowed to serve when there is a conflict of interest. Alot of changes do need to be made & community members such as Catherine are making sure the best interest of our children are put first & foremost. Leave the politics out of it.

And ...This does not take into account the 8 integrated classes that are run with a smaller number of students. Most integrated classes have only 20 student total so that would change the number of classes even more. The integrated teachers also need rooms to go to for support time. This affects everyone, not just the students at Oquenock, becasue we all lose our computer labs, art rooms, etc.

@ Garry... interesting when you look at actual numbers....And as previously stated by Mr. Simon. If one schools loses computers, they ALL lose computers. And I know what some will say concerning Oquenock, that they can move the computers into the library. Did anyone take into account the fire marshal occupancy levels for the library? Just and example here, if the average classroom size is 25 kids and the library is rated for an occupancy level of 50 people. Then that would not work. kids (50) teacher (2) librarian (1)...Again, I have absolutely no idea of what the maximums are, I am just wondering.

Justin - I don't know what the amounts are for people allowed in the library, but I do know that the three smallest librariries are in Oquenock, Manetuck, and Belllew. So we will be moving computers into the smallest libraries...interesting how that will work out.

I am sure there will be many who will back you up.

Not sure what went on while I was gone, but......there's a space issue regardless of which ES close! The better decision would have been to close 1 MS & 1 ES. Again we will need the space in ES before they need it in MS.

The space issue is not the same for each building. That is the issue. There are more classrooms in Westbrook.

@questionablechoice. I couldn't agree more!!!!!!!

haha! No worries, I am alive and well...........

I agree. The children should come first. After they have been places in a setting that will fit in, then marketablitly and money should be cosidered. The board's main interest should be the children.

Plenty of people are not who they say they are, it truly doesn't surprise me..........And plenty of times comments are deleted on here by the editors.....truly it makes you wonder.....

Who belongs in bay shore? Are you saying kids attend WI schools but live in the bay shore district? Or are you saying the kids with bay shore zip code should autmomatically go to bay shore even though they are zoned for WI school district?

Again Al, the people who live in the Bay Shore mailing address PAY WEST ISLIP TAXES. What is your problem?

I am curious too. it seems I missed a lot! I am trying to fill in the pieces, but would love to get the whole story.

Dear Greg Sleter, back in November I emailed the main support @ patch to find out if a Patch editor could research a poster and reveal who it was. Please read the reply from them I pasted below. Who is telling the truth? You or them?

Melanie, Nov-23 20:59 (EST):
Hi Wendy,
Thank you for contacting Patch! I am happy to help here.
Fortunately it is nearly impossible for the editorial staff to obtain personal information about users. The only information they are able to see for users is the bio and comment history.
Could you please provide me with some details on what specifically happened? I'll then escalate this to the editorial management.
Many thanks,
Melanie

________________________________________

Wendy Regan, Nov-23 16:50 (EST):
To Whom It May Concern,
Can the editor of my local Patch (West Islip, New York) reveal an email
address? I'm not saying posting my email address on the patch website, but
verbally tell someone else the email address of a poster? It seems as if
that very thing has happened and I believe I can prove it. Can the Patch
Corporation research as to if my local editor inquired about the email
address from which a post was made? With whom from may I file a privacy
complaint? Other than the editor of my local patch, of course.
Thank you

Greg, as a patch editor, you are only able to assume this is not the case with the info and IP address given under her known account. You can also check if other accounts share that same IP address. However, you are unable to detect if an alias account under a different IP (such as a phone, IPad, different land line, etc.) is her. To find out who owns an IP address is impossible without a subpoena or police order. Seventh searching IP accounts, coordinates come up & specific companies (fios, optimum,etc) will show as owning them. The only way those specific companies would reveal personal info is under the circumstances I just stated. Your technology cannot pin point IP ownership. Now, I question why you post otherwise?

Well now it's getting interesting!!!! Good job Wendy.

You are absolutely right about the skepticism! There is clearly an attempted cover up to protect the guilty party!

Greg, did you write your one sided article after you all told Ms. Artusa to stop posting? Everyone go check out his article. Good journalism should never be based on opinions or biased language.

Kind of near Oquenock? I'm not sure where rainbow village is. I'm assuming it's the houses on pine with the power lines buried underground. I've only lived here a few years.

yes, it is very close to Oquenock......Trying to figure out a way to describe...Oquenock is on Spruce and the next block I can't remember the name of it but if you are standing at the doors of Oquenock, you make a left out of the parking lot, then your first left, then your first right and that is where Southgate was. Don't know if that helps or not.

Carol Ann Court

I'm not saying that it makes him a security specialist, however don't you think that police officers are knowledgeable in this sort of thing?

Lol! Bob!! That's hysterical!

Al, I can agree that a bigger problem is posed with having a vacant building in a neighborhood. I do feel it is easier to police Westbrook than Oquenock when it comes to that. I get that people are upset, but again, we should have as all of ES united and fought the decision. 1 MS and 1 ES should have been what the vote was. Now, we still have 2 half empty MS operating, and they are expecting us to fund them while we have 4 ES buildings operating at well above optimum capacity.

It isn't that it is not Ok it's Westbrook, it is that the students will not fit in Oquencok.

But Gerry, according to the numbers, they will fit.

Again, I don't think this was the right option. A MS and an ES should have closed. Now we have overcrowded ES buildings and MS buildings both operating at less than half capacity.

According to what numbers they will fit. I will repost this comment I said earlier:

This is my problem - right now the population of our 6 elementary schools is not close to even. Mr. Simon has said a goal of redistricting is to even this out, He also said each school should have an average of 525 students. Until we redistrict we can't know the exact amount in each grade, but lets estimate with the number we were given by Mr. Simon:
1) 525 students in grades K-5 = 87.5 students per grade
2) 87.5 students per grade in 3 classes per grade would be 29 students per class. Contractually that cannot happen under any circumstances in any K, 1, 2, or 3 class so that means most likely 4 classes of these grades in each building. Any amount over 72 students means 4 classes of Kindergarten, any amount over 78 means 4 classes of grades 1, 2, and 3. And that is assuming the class was to start past the maximum with the 10% that the district can add in an emergency which the Board has clearly said they will not do.
3) 87.5 student in grades 4 and 5 would mean if there were three classes they would start at their max with the 10% already added. If one new student moved in they would pass their max.
It seems to me you would need four sections of almost every grade. Oquenock does not have the capablity to hold four sections of every grade so where will the children go?

And this is not taking into account that the 8 integrated classes normally run with a smaller number. Currently they have only about 20 students each. That would mean more sections. Unless they are overloading Manetuck this won't work. Oquenock does not have enough rooms to house 4 sections of each grade. Will Manetuck wind up with 5 and 6 sections of each grade so Oquenock can have 3 sections of each?

Gerry, based on Mr. Simon's numbers, that were presented to us the other night at the meeting, the numbers that you so want to believe, as you want to believe everything he tells you to the point that you won't even look at the numbers from NYS - according to THOSE numbers presented by Mr. Simon, they all will fit. Go back and look.....

What numbers are you refering to? His numbers point to them not fitting as I have explained. There are not enough classrooms to house 4 sections of every grade in Oquenock. Either they will need trailers or they will redistrict so that Manetuck winds up with over 600 kids so Oquenock can have 400.

Gerry - there are currently 22 classrooms at Oquenock and one easily convertible room which would make 23 classrooms. At an average class size of 22, that is 506 students. Until the re-districting is done, we don't know that that building needs 4 sections of each grade. However, the computer rooms in all 4 remaining buildings will probably be moved to the library, creating another classroom. This would then allow Oquenock to hold 528 students at an average size of 22.

Gerry - there are currently 22 classrooms at Oquenock and one easily convertible room which would make 23 classrooms. At an average class size of 22, that is 506 students. Until the re-districting is done, we don't know that that building needs 4 sections of each grade. However, the computer rooms in all 4 remaining buildings will probably be moved to the library, creating another classroom. This would then allow Oquenock to hold 528 students at an average size of 22.

Terry- can you tell us if you we can move the planning session into larger room? Talk to Jack and please let the public know. Thanks

Catherine - I'm not sure what you're implying or what assumptions you've made, but I would be glad to suggest to Mr Simon in an email that he should expect many people to attend the planning sessions and perhaps a better location can be found. If/when the location is changed, the change is posted on the district website. You could do the same thing.

I will let you know Lauren when Jess gets me the info.

What 4 es are operating at over 80%?

They WILL be come September Justin because 2 ES buildings are closing.Closing 1 ES and 1 MS would have ensured that the remaining buildings would be operating EXACTLY where the BOE said they should be - around 80% - leaving room for growth if need be.Now, go back up on this thread where I post the numbers that each school can hold and trying to divide up the students from the buildings that are closing. It is going to be tight, while the MS buildings are sitting there operating at 45% capacity.It wasn't about "saving Oquenock" as everyone wants to claim it is. The fact is, Bellew, Oquenock, Manetuck, and Bayview are going to be packed to the gills. And again, people can come on here all they want and tell me that I'll be ok and that my school is open, but I want to make it VERY clear, I DON'T think my children will be attending Oquenock in September thanks to the redistricting that needs to be done. And honestly, it probably would have been easier to explain to my daughter that she can't go to the school she loves SO MUCH if it were closing, than to explain to her that it is remaining OPEN but she can't go there! A BAD decision was made to close 2 ES, but no one was willing to get up and fight it because they assumed that Oquenock and Kirdahy would be the schools to go. Now that that isn't the case, here we are with people complaining. Even though EVERYONE would be redistricted and EVERYONE would be affected, it didn't really hit home til now, and here we are.......

QC, I'm getting the feeling that you and I have the same suspicion. I've been in contact w/ someone who has much knowledge about internet laws and IP addresses. Don't want to say too much, but it's being worked on. If the editors made an error in judgement when they posted that statement, I hope they step up and do the right thing because this is not something that's going to go away simply because they don't respond us. Let's hope for the best.

How sad to think that all of our "paranoid delusions" were true!!!!!!!!!!! I wish I was talking crazy talk, but here we are and the proof is here..... AGAIN, the simplest explanation is usually the RIGHT ONE.

This is just making a sad day in our town EVEN SADDER!

What the HELL is going on here?

He didn't stand up because, in my opinion, He IS a coward!.. And given the opportunity I will tell him face to face.

Listen, AGAIN, I do think it was the realtors that changed the BOE's mind. I do think that for the last 2 years they had it in their heads to close Kirdahy and Oquenock. I think when the realtors came, and said that Oquenock would only be useful if the district was willing to sell it, they realized that Westbrook was the better option to earn money for the district. Again, they can't go selling off properties like this. We will need these buildings again. No one wants to listen to it, but I swear 2010-2011 was a huge year for babies being born. 3 years from now, when those 2010 babies are ready to go to Kindergarten, they will need to reopen a building, WHICH THEY WOULD BE UNABLE TO DO if they sold Oquenock to a developer to build houses there. NONE of the realtors they spoke to were willing to represent the district in the sale of Oquenock but they were willing to represent the district for the lease of Westbrook. This is what it came down to. I do think they had their minds made up and in the last couple of weeks they came to see reason - that what they thought was best was not in fact the best idea (again, the best idea in my head IS THAT A MS AND ES SHOULD HAVE BEEN CLOSED), but barring that happening, the right choice was made as the safety issue is a REAL concern! As is the money. Eventually they need to concern themselves with the MONEY. The fact is we will earn money from Westbrook's lease while retaining our properties for when we will need them for OUR children.

I totally agree t-bag. He sat there & let Annmarie make the final decision to protect his own rear! What a coward & a weasel!

I have to say you are right about the president casting the final vote. Robert's Rule is usually the common practice and I believe that dictates that only the president can break a tie. It is part of the responsibility they have. Therefore it should have been Mr. Gellar to cast the final vote and obviously that final vote would have been the deciding vote for the BOE. It was wrong for any other votes to be cast after the president since I don't think on technically the VP can break a vote. Unless of course the BOE doesn't follow Robert's Rule which would be unusual.

My cousin, who has counseled me in more things than I care to mention CONSTANTLY MENTIONS ROBERTS RULES TO ME!!!! Always! He has told me to get the book and study it and make motions, etc., etc., I can't believe someone posted that here! Maybe we really ALL do need to get ourselves a copy and study it!

although, if you take Congress as an example, isn't the VP usually the one that comes in and can only vote in order to break a tie?? Not sure if that has anything to do with this, but I'm just saying, usually the VP is the tie breaker????????

Actually Jessica it's the Vice President of the United States ACTING in his capacity of President of the Senate. If as I believe in a previous post you claimed to be lawyer, shouldn't you know this?

Catherine Artusa, given the post which I pasted from the Patch Service Center (the national headquarters of Patch if you will) which said that Patch editors DO NOT HAVE ACCESS to poster's "real" identities AND the post from QuestionableChoice which went even further to point out that the only way to find out who belongs to an IP address (aka "real identity") is with a subpoena AND your emailed proof of the BOE member who is posting under the alias of 'Debra'.....well I'm thinking at this point we're probably not hearing any response because they are seeking professional advice on how to proceed. Please don't let this go.

Wendy I am not letting this go, the Patch starting emailing me from this morning asking me to stop. I am sure they will delete this too. But I already emailed Mr. Simon waiting for response. I think the important thing is the behavior of some members of the board, and the people that let them get away with it. If you question them they attack you or accuse you of things. It's not acceptable, BTW I will probably need a body guard at next BOE meeting but thats ok not afraid. I am still going to ask my questions (because I have alot) they can attack me, roll their eyes whatever. I think I am more disappointed in the patch for their behavior today. I am sure they will delete my account now.

HA! Cathy, I will personally be your body guard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree. You can only pass the buck for so long. The state is NOT to blame! They are suffering like the rest of us! You can't blame the state for passing the tax cap to PROTECT us. You can't blame the state for taking care of its employees. Again, to the teachers, I know people complain, but the fact remains that YOU ARE RAISING OUR CHILDREN! You spend more time with them than we do! That is a fact. Our teachers are helping to raise AND are teaching our children (and mind you, doing a WAY better job than any of us could do in teaching them what they need to know). The fact is, this is a relatively affluent community, and if state aid is going around, there are other towns that need it MORE than we do. There is NO reason why we can't made due with what we have. There is no reason why the astronomical taxes continue to go up! Do more with less! We ARE capable of it! The West Islip graduates will continue to go to excellent colleges and universities regardless of whether or not there are 2 MS!

t-bag...just one clarification, 7 and 8% budgets weren't shoved down anyone's throats. The people in this town voted to approve them. If anything this whole episode is a lesson for our community that for one, we can't have everything we want because at some point the bill comes due and secondly, it is up to us, the people of this town to make sure unsustainable spending like has been going on does not happen in the future regardless of what happens with the tax cap. Those who are sick of the tax increas and the profligate spending, like myself, need to make sure we are just as diligent in the future as we have been through all of this.

Just out of curiousity t-bag, what do you think about closing 1 MS?

And Greg, I LOVE you!! (Maybe I'm on a high from the Giant's game), but seriously, what the HELL is going on?????

Exactly!!!! Told my 2 boys they may need to go to a different school next year.. My older boy said great he can make new friends.. my little guy just wanted to make sure they had recess and a playground.. I made sure they were aware of next year as soon as I heard about it. It's nice to see that other parents in the district understand they they have an obligation to educate their kids as well!

This was because we were told "ACT LIKE IT IS YOUR SCHOOL ON THE CHOPPING BLOCK" I wish all Elementary school believed this. Then we wouldn't be in this crappy situation!

@T-Bag..I agree that it does start at the top however there has also been a lot of wasteful spending right here. I remember back when dr. Blau was still superintendent...at one of the budget mtgs she said that the crisis we faced back then was nothing compared to what was coming in the future. Did she know school closures were coming? Did anyone know & do nothing?? I would hope not but I doubt it. I think someone dropped the ball big time. How does it get so bad so fast that a district has to close TWO schools? Maybe if something were done sooner we may not be in this mess. @Jessica...I agreed w/ the idea of closing 1es & 1 ms & bringing 6th grade back down for many reasons....but to keep it short...that seemed to save the most money that was a sure thing. Closing 2 es w/ the "hope" of a rental is irresponsible & NOT a sure thing. But since they did close 2 es...then my opinion was to keep the largest ones open. In my opinion that made the most sense...but I guess it's true when they say money talks.

Lisa is right. They did drop the ball because 3 years ago we went to them after hearing they were closing Captree and the they laughed at us. Making comments that we were young and implying we had no idea what I was talking about ( they called us the Captree corner) . HMMM maybe they shouldn't have been laughing. Not that I wanted our school closed sooner but the fact of the matter is I was at all the budget meetings last year they knew this tax cap was coming but they put it off. Now we have to rush and close 2 schools at once, when all along they talked about one the first year, a second to follow. We don't know if everyone will fit, we don't know class size and if any programs will be cut. The excuse will be the budget not the schools closing but really whats the difference its all money that is not there.

OK T-bag, I get what you are saying, however, my point is that you can only pass the buck for so long.....STOP BLAMING NYS and TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for mismanagement of our tax $$$ and making the wrong decision. Yes, fine, it is not the "working guys' fault" ...of course not.....but who is spending our money? The BOE! And they can only pass the buck and blame NYS for so long! Eventually someone needs to take responsibility! I'm not even saying they are at fault for purposely wasting our money ....maybe they though things would turn around, maybe they thought what they were doing was right, but ADMIT YOU MADE A MISTAKE! Maybe Kirdahy should NEVER have been reopened!!!!! That was a waste right there! How much money was spent operating a building WE DIDN'T NEED for the last decade????? Or giving raises in a rapidly declining economy??????